Note: More artworks might be added over time.
Fun Fact: The 'C' in Art2C is the initial of my name. So my alias means: The inspiration comes to me; Art to 'C' or me.
That's why my catchphrase is: Art2C = Art4U. As ideas come to me, I visualize them and bring them to you.
What are Chimi’s?
Chimi’s are small human-like individuals, created and designed by me, Art2C.
Chimi stands for Chibi Miniature.
By the time I created these little precious, I already had a Chibi art style, and thus after a bit of brainstorming, these little ones became Chimi’s.
They have a completely different art/coloring style then my other two art styles.
Also they each have a uniquely shaped eye line, and uniquely shaped mouth. They also have a cute symbol/shape in their eyes.
There’s also no light source, they’re shaded to what looks/feels good. The shading layers also have a divergent color mixed in to make them even more playful, and other fun and unique additions.
Artwork: C-Line Single Shade
Why would you choose Chimi’s?
Well why not?
They’re small, they’re cute, they’re colorful and playful. Many people already said, just looking at their faces make them smile.
They’re also very approachable and relatable to many people, even those who are not as familiar with the Japanese animation styles.
They’re also very versatile, and can be used for many goals!
So why wait? Order your own little cutie now!
Artwork: C-Line Single Shade
Where can you use Chimi's?
A lot of things actually. They’re small, and despite the details some have they still represent themselves very well!
Like digitally they can be used as avatars, banners, logo’s, mascots and even things like emoji’s and stickers on various platforms.
Or merchandising, they can be printed on so many things like stickers, key chains, charms, phone charms, temporary tattoos, or even diamond painting, jigsaw puzzles, painting by number,
and more like clothes, wall décor, or even things like mugs, plates, placemats, and the list goes on and on!
There is so much!
So don’t wait any longer and get your own small precious today!
If you're interested in your own line of merchandise for your Chimi, feel free to check out the List of Merchandise I have to offer!
I carefully selected a very wide range of products that are very suitable for your Chimi, and will make your little one even more of an eye catcher!
Note: The List of Merchandise is as of now not yet Live. I'm working hard to have so as soon as possible.
Sketch: This is the basic of all you can order. These are rough pencil lines, without any color. Note; these lines are not cleaned up, but roughly sketched.
LineArt: These are the clean, beautiful and smooth lines. The hair strands are traced with a special end vector brush, and the line's ends, have a beautiful pointy finish. Note; LineArt has no colors.
B-Line: Every category with this concept, means the artwork has Black LineArt, so all the outlines are Black.
C-Line: Every category with this concept, means the artwork has Colored LineArt, so all the outlines are colored accordingly to what color that specific area has, but in a darker tone.
Base Color: This mean the artwork only has 1 single color. Only the eyes have more details added.
Single Shade: This mean the artwork has 1 shading layer over the basic color layer. The hair also has highlights, and the eyes are also slightly changed.
Full Color: This means the artwork is fully colored, with 4 different tints of shading, plus a divergent color into the shading. The hair has added colors and the typical Chimi glitters. Also a bit of facial make-up (blush) is added, and the eyes have a lot more details.
Duotone: This means the entire artwork is made with a completely different coloring/shading tehcnique, using only 2 colors total. Usually these colors are Black & White, but they can be any color you prefer.
What will be the authentic Chimi? A C-Line Full Color is considered an authentic Chimi
Fun Fact: I've drawn the C-trio and B-trio so many times, that small funny stories came to life. People who know about them said, they would love a comic book, with collected short comics of these two comical trio's and their adventures. Do you agree? Let me know!
Basic Design
Head:
Sketch | From: € 8,- |
LineArt | From: € 14,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 18,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 28,- |
- Full Color | From: € 32,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 20,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 30,- |
- Full Color | From: € 34,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Half Body:
Sketch | From: € 16,- |
LineArt | From: € 22,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 32,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 46,- |
- Full Color | From: € 52,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 34,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 48,- |
- Full Color | From: € 54,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Average Design
Head:
Sketch | From: € 10,- |
LineArt | From: € 20,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 22,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 35,- |
- Full Color | From: € 42,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 26,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 38,- |
- Full Color | From: € 46,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Half Body:
Sketch | From: € 22,- |
LineArt | From: € 58,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 50,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 74,- |
- Full Color | From: € 84,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 56,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 80,- |
- Full Color | From: € 95,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Detailed Design
Head:
Sketch | From: € 20,- |
LineArt | From: € 32,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 42,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 42,- |
- Full Color | From: € 50,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 36,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 44,- |
- Full Color | From: € 52,- |
Duotone: | TBA! |
Half Body:
Sketch | From: € 40,- |
LineArt | From: € 80,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 93,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 158,- |
- Full Color | From: € 168,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 96,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 164,- |
- Full Color | From: € 174,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Full Body
Full Body:
Sketch | From: € 20,- |
LineArt | From: € 30,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 36,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 54,- |
- Full Color | From: € 64,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 40,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 58,- |
- Full Color | From: € 68,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Full Body:
Sketch | From: € 35,- |
LineArt | From: € 75,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 80,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 140,- |
- Full Color | From: € 150,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 86,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 120,- |
- Full Color | From: € 135,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Full Body:
Sketch | From: € 50,- |
LineArt | From: € 110,- |
B-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 128,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 186,- |
- Full Color | From: € 206,- |
C-Line: | |
- Base Color | From: € 132,- |
- Single Shade | From: € 190,- |
- Full Color | From: € 210,- |
Duotone | TBA! |
Half Body
Head
Artwork: B-Line Full Color
Fun Fact: All the artworks on the website are meant to show my chimi skillset.
Surcharges:
Background: | From: € 4,- |
(Simple Only) | |
Duotone: | From: € 8,- |
To convert from PNG to EPS/SVG | |
Text to Visual: | From: € 8,- |
A fee when more text than visuals are provided | |
Re-Do Fee: | From: € 2,- |
A fee for too many changes |
20% of total price required before
Commission Start
General
Q: I want to maybe order more of ‘name character’ in the future. Can you assure that the colors will be the same?
A: Yes I can. For each and every one I make color charts that I back-up. These color charts I can use later on if you order more of the same character.
Q: I see a mistake here and there, can I say something about that?
A: Absolutely. Even though I do my very best to check several times, it can always happen that I don’t see a specific part. Four eyes see more than two eyes.
Feel free to message me and point out the mistake (like missing colors, or overlapping lines I forgot to
erase) and I’ll correct these for you, no extra charge obviously.
Q: Can I decide if a design is average or detailed?
A: No. I as an illustrator will decide this. Otherwise everyone will claim their design as Basic, while I’m busting my behind off for hours only to receive just ¼ of what the commission is worth in the end.
Q: Can I watch along as you draw?
A: I prefer to work alone. I feel honored you wish to watch your Chimi come to life. But it adds an insane amount of pressure for me, which will make your little one suffer (quality wise).
Q: Do you accept calls in Discord?
A: For now, no. Even though I consider my English not bad, I’m not a native speaker/writer. We want to make sure we understand each other, which is best done through chatting/text.
Q: I really want a Mascot Chimi for myself, but I have no idea how to start. Can you help?
A: I absolutely can. However the "text to visual" surcharge will apply. I cannot do this for free as it requires a lot of time and communication to create your desired Mascot Chimi.
The more ideas you provide yourself, the less the surcharge will be. In this case the starting fee of € 8,- will be charged upon starting, and depending on how long it will take to create the reference chart, you'll be billed for the rest after it's done.
Keep in mind: I charge € 8,- an hour (my commission prices are also based on € 8,- an hour).
For this price you can expect me to fully help with many ideas, I won't just sit down and do nothing. You can also join my Discord server, and ask for help in the "Inspiration" Channel.
Q: I see that the Duotone category is TBA, what does this mean and why?
A: TBA means 'to be announced'.
I do have the 'basic' design in Duotone, and its time is also recorded. However I do not have the 'complicated' design yet, and thus I cannot give a price as of yet. Chimi are cutest and most alive when in full color, so I'm not sure if there will be enough interest in just Duotone.
I have decided if there's enough interest in Duotone in general for these Chimi's, I will draw the Complicated design in Duotone (as it requires an entirely different technique of coloring/drawing) and give the prices.
Can & Cant's
Q: Do you also do male Chimi?
A: I absolutely do! Disclaimer: I am better at illustrating female Chimi.
Q: Do you also make chimi for things like shorts comics?
A: Yes, I do. However, take into account, I charge per chimi, so things like Short comics/Stickers etc. can get very expensive quickly.
Artwork: Sketch
Q: Can you also make stickers for apps like; Telegram, Discord and such?
A: Of course! Those are also real fun to do, because chimi's are even adorable with these comical expressions. But just like short stories, multiple stickers can get expensive as I charge per Chimi.
However for these type of stickers, Head or Half Body is suggested, which aren't as expensive as a Full Body.
Q: Can you also make things like Avatars and Banners with my Chimi?
A: Absolutely! Even in the right sizes, just ask!
Q: I see that explicit artwork commission requests like suggestive poses are prohibited. Does that mean I also can’t order a swimsuit or bikini Chimi?
A: Don’t worry, you CAN order swimsuit or bikini Chimi, what you CANNOT do is request suggestive/lewd poses with said swimsuit/bikini.
Q: Are sexy poses also banned?
A: That depends on your concept of sexy, to some it’s truly a nice pose, maybe a bit teasing. To other sexy means sexual poses/suggestive poses, which are a no.
If you’re not sure, you can always send a message through the contact form, and I will look over your wished pose and decide if they’re suitable for my Chimi Art Style. I do request, if I were to reject the pose, you accept my choice and not throw a tantrum.
Q: Can you also do animation?
A: No, my apologies. I don't do animations.
Q: If I order a group artwork of, for example, 3 chimi, can I get a discount?
A: Unfortunately no, my prices are based on the hours I spend drawing them. Drawing them 3 times, does not reduce the
amount of hours I’m working.
Ordering
Q: I find my quotation too much. Am I obligated to finish the order?
A: Not at all, don’t worry. As explained in the W.I.P Video and written guide, after you’ve received a quotation, you’re free to walk away if you decide not to go through with the commission.
Requesting a quotation is not binding order.
Q: How is a price for a group artwork determined?
A: Like any other quotation request, I assess the complexity of each design, and will detail this on the invoice. If you
order 2 Medium complex designs and 1 Simple complex design, you won’t be charged for 3x Medium, you will be charged for 2x Medium and 1x Simple.
Q: What if I want the exact same artwork, but in 2 different sub categories. Do I have to pay each subcategory in full?
A: No, don’t worry. Every subcategory I have recorded separately, even subs you can’t see on the website, like pre shading or doodling, etc. If you order 2 subcategories of the exact same artwork (which will only leave me to edit some things, like LineArt or shading) I will take this document with all recorded times and make your quote based on these recorded times.
So if for example you order: B-Line Base Color and C-Line Single Shade of the exact same artwork. I will charge for B-Line Base Color, full price, and for the C-Line Single Shade only add the minutes I need for preshading and coloring LineArt (which I have both recorded separately), and not charge the full price of C-Line Single Shade on top. As all the steps to reach B-Line Base Color has been achieved once, and with the same artwork, does not need to be repeated. Thus I’ll only add the time necessary to add in the steps needed to achieve C-Line Single Shade.
Commission
Q: How long do you need for a commission?
A: This depends entirely on several factors like:
- The complexity of your design or
- Communication from your side. Since I need your opinion in
the Rough Sketch phase and Detail Sketch phase and also the
Color Chart phase, I cannot continue unless you reply to my
questions/w.i.p screenshots as soon as possible.
I work daily as many hours as I can, but since I aim for quality
over quantity, please do not expect miracles, like getting a full
commission within hours.
The prices are based on my working hours, so if you take the
price you paid, you may be able to make a rough estimate,
however this is not accurate science.
Q: Can I have this chimi before this date?
A: That depends on your position on the waiting list. I don’t
do preferential treatment or exceptions, so please wait your turn.
I can and will tell you if your request is feasible for me.
Q: If I pay you more, can I be put sooner in queue?
A: No. I don't accept bribes, no exceptions, and no preferential
treatments.
Q: How will I know when it's my turn?
A: I made a queue list at the Order Form, where you can see where in line you are. I will also try my best to give you an estimate on when I'll work on your order. But these are estimates only and not promises.
Q: I'm a returning customer, can I get in line first?
A: No, I'm sorry. I'm immensely grateful you're back for another little cutie, but I work on; First come, First serve base.
Q: It's my turn, but I don't have the deposit fee yet, what to do?
A: I first will push you back to 1st people waiting. If you still don't have the deposit fee, by the time it's your turn again, you can: be pushed back to the end of the queue, or cancel your Commission.
Pricing
Q: I see the prices say: ‘From €...’ are these the set prices?
A: No, they’re varied. ‘From’ means the prices start at that amount. So if a price is From: € 8,- the amount can be anywhere from €8,- and up.
Q: How did you come up with your prices?
A: Very easy. Hourly. My software records the time I’m working on a project, when I pause, it’ll also say: recording paused. It will
only record the times I’m actively working, and these timestamps cannot be altered. So I used this function to determine how many hours I spend on an artwork, and roughly made prices based on the hours spend.
Q: I see several big price jumps. E.G. from Base Color to Single Shade. Why?
A: Some steps take a lot of time. The most time consuming steps are Sketching, LineArt, Shading of any kind, or making patterns (the more elaborate they are, the more time consuming they become as I have to make them by hand, and either add them in one by one, or make them seamless), among other things.
Q: You say your prices are based upon the hours you spend working on a piece. How are you sure you spend x amount of hours?
A: That’s why Kommy, Missy and Manni exist, watch their sample gallery. All of their times of basic and detailed complexity were recorded, and from their designs I made prices. It is however possible that I spend more time on your piece, resulting in you getting the commission cheaper essentially. But I’ll rarely, if not at all, spend less time on a commission.
Q: If you spend more time than estimated on my commission, will you charge extra in the end?
A: No, absolutely not. I find this unfair towards you. I give estimates and if I estimated too little that’s my own doing, and I won’t let you as my customer pay for my mistakes.
Q: How are you sure your hours are accurate?
A: With each subcategory I made, I created a new file, pasted everything from the last subcategory into the new file (like Sketch subcategory, so I could start the LineArt subcategory) and worked from there, as a new file starts recording at 00.00 time. Then when finished I added these hours into Excel. Rinse and repeat for every subcategory.
It was a lot of work, but I did what was needed for accurate time recording. However I did shave down most subcategories down. I’m not a nitpicker, I didn’t calculate every single minute.
Q: How do I know what details make a design more elaborate?
A: Each Kommy, Missy and Manni show the differences in added complexity. Kommy shows how a simple outfit can turn into an elaborate outfit with details added. Missy shows how a simple outfit can turn into a similar yet more elaborate design, and Manni shows a simple design, and an almost completely different elaborate design.
That’s why, when you send in an order form, it’s first and foremost just a request for a quotation, and not at all a binding order yet. So feel free to ask how much your desired design and subcategory will cost!
Only after you agree with the price given will it become an order.
Merchandise
Q: I’d also love Merchandise for my Chimi, can I order these through you?
A: Absolutely, go to List of Merchandise, here is a list of merchandise I deem fit for your little one. (Note: The List is Currently not yet Live. I'm working hard on organizing the list with all products/prices/quantities as clear as possible for a pleasant shopping experience.
Q: I want my commission ready for merchandise printing like Keychains, so I can order it by myself, can you help?
A: Sure! I can easily add things like borders, and also small hole indications (in case of Keychains or phone charms). Please tell me beforehand, so we can work together to make your commission merchandise print ready.
Q: How do I order the Merchandise?
A: By filling in the Order Form on the List of Merchandise page, when it's available.
Q: Do shipping fees apply?
A: Yes. You can check the List of Merchandise page for estimated production time/delivery time/shipping quotes and delivery services.
Other
Q: Is Missy going to be alright?
A: Yes, absolutely, haha. After Kommy and Manni found out why their bestie was so down, they explained to her
that ‘copycat’ doesn’t mean an actual cat, like her. They’re now all enjoying a warm cup of tea, sharing their most favorite snacks with each other, as you can see ^_^
Artwork: B-Line Base Color
General:
The Dont's:
(robots/androids that look like humans)
Accepted Payment Methods:
(Fees apply)
(Fees may apply)
Artwork: Sketch w/ Color Chart (this subcategory is not for sale.)
When you place an order, this will be your commission's progress:
When you walk away:
When you finalize the order:
The files I can deliver are at the very least 12.000 pixels wide and 16.000 pixels high. Yes I can re-size/re-scale as desired. No extra charge at all.
If you post your Chimi for the world to see, I'd be honored if you'd credit me. This is however not necessary, they're your adorable little Chimi after all.
Fun Fact: C-Trio stands for the Commission Trio (Kommy, Missy and Manni).
B-Trio stands for the Bootleg Trio (Dabbel, Bootlar and Koppy), they're the C-Trio's male equivalents (they're meant as a joke).
Who are those three little ones you ask?
Meet Kommy, Missy and Manni, these three help guide you to your very own Chimi.
They show you the endless possibilities with them, the difference in simple and complicated styles for easier reference when you order.
Their names are derived from their job; Commission (Kommy & Missy) to make Money (Manni)
They’ll show you the difference in what details makes a design more complex, they’ll show you what angles Chimi’s can be available in as much as possible, and also a few funny facial expressions.
But they’re also here to give you a smile, the reason Chimi’s were created for.
Even though these 3 cuties are the commission mascots only, they wouldn’t be their own person if they didn’t have a very small back story.
Kommy is originally American, with a big love for European fashion, and adores bright colors.
Missy is a native Asian, with a big passion for the American culture, as her fashion sense will clearly express.
Manni is European who found her peace in the Asian culture, hence why she’ll always walk around elegantly in Japanese style garments.
They all met each other at a mixed culture sharing convention, and each found they could teach one another about their own culture while indulging in their love for other cultures.
Now their inseparable, and will take any chance to also help other people. That’s why they came to Art2C to help her show you what a Chimi is, how fun they be, how cute they are, and learn and have fun themselves as well.
Please fill out the below form for a quotation of your Chimi Commission. Please do not use this form to ask questions. This is an order form/quotation request form.
If you have any questions, please scroll below for the contact form, where you can send an email to ask anything you have any issues, or your question hasn't been answered in the Q&A above.
I'll need your name, e-mail, main category preference, sub category preference, and any attachments (doodles, reference charts, profiles, etc).
You can also add a text description if you don't have any visuals. But please take into account, fees can be charged when the text description far outweighs the visuals provided. (Text to Visual surcharge, because visualizing test to images, can take a lot of extra time).
Attachments:
You can add these attachments as links (Google Drive, WeTransfer) or visit Discord and provide your attachments there, if you have no links to provide/or are unable to.
Then please put in the 'Text description' field: Attachments will be send through discord.
When you send your attachments through discord, please state clearly who you are, so I can link your form to your discord name.
Disclaimer: Duotone will be added as an option, when available.
Artwork: C-Line Base Color
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Discord -you can also leave a message here-
Twitter -you can also send a DM here-
Artwork: C-Line Full Color
(the Authentic Chimi)
This is a list of all the funding goals I have. The reason why this is not listed in the menu, is because I don't want to force people to read all I need, and the reason for opening Chimi Commissions, yet I do want to share what I'm saving up for, and also show you where you'll be helping me with immensely by placing an order.
This list is for you to read if you like. It's not a pity-me party, not a plea in any way, or to force you to order a commissions at all!
Necessary funding goals:
- Loan: €9000,- (A loan my best friend took out for me for the first 2 quality of life Surgeries, that I am adament on paying back as soon as possible)
- Quality of life Surgery: €3000,- (the last surgery needed of a set of 3, of which I had 2, to help with my mental and psychical health)
- Support to control a chronic inflammation Surgery: ~€2000 (price unknown yet. Surgery is needed to solve a chronic inflammation under my skin)
- Office improvement: €3000,- (A new desktop that can support my work. Right now I have an office desktop with low performance)
I've decided to merge the necessities for my Duo-Noves with my Office improvement budget. After some shuffling, measuring and making many notes, I concluded this was possible, and would decrease the needed budget by a lot.
- Various loans my mother left me when she passed: €5500,- (right now this is being paid off in installments each month, but it would be
nice to just be rid of it completely). Unfortunately I cannot get a pass for these amounts, as in the end I found out they were mostly orders made
through my account through various shops, without me knowing.
- Car: €3000,-/€5000,- (for after I get my drivers license, my best friend surprised me by sponsoring my drivers license! :D)
Luxury funding goals:
- Tattoo: €1500,- (The biggest piece yet, of my Peon. This to celebrate a life-long struggle. Peon represents Rebirth into a New Life, you can see her in the Portfolio Gallery)
- E-Bike: €3000,- (I now have a regular bike, which works excellently, however my body is starting to show problems, like stiffening muscles so I can't pedal anymore. So I'd like to save up for an e-bike to make it easier on my body to go from point A to point B) Even though I wish to get a driver's license, not everything can be done by car.
Quality of life surgeries: Some people call these cosmetic, the majority call them necessary. These surgeries are the removal of excess skin, after I lost a lot of weight, after a battle of almost 3 decades.
It should've been reimbursed, but the health system in our country is so poor, they won't even reimburse a necessary surgery to help me with a chronic inflammation.
I tried everything to get the money, but no one in the entire worls granted me the last step towards a new life (I tried, banks, but I'm chronically ill with benefits, so no loan. Finance companies refused me, benefit agency didn't want to help, family only bragged how much they had saved instead of helping find ways to fund the surgeries, not even gofundme was kind.
So my best friend offered his credit with the bank to take out a loan.
I am paying back this loan. I also need 1 last surgery, that I prefer to pay for myself with commissions, rather then him, again, sacrificing himself for a third time.
I am 100% considered incapicitated, and this assessment was re-newed June 2023, with no future of being fit for work. (This was assessed by the benefits agency specialized occupational physician as well as my own physician).
Goals in Bold have most priority.
So your order will give me:
- Funding for my goals
- A way to forget about my chronic pains because
I love drawing, and I love creating Chimi's!
- A way to pass time
- An insight of your own creativity
Current Saving Goal:
Office improvement:
€0,- out of €3000,-
Next goal:
Quality of Life Surgery
Artwork: B-Line Single Shade
Fun Fact: The names of the E-Trio (the Embarassing Trio/NoFace Chimi -those in Prison-) are Dysehaunt (Discount), Freela (Free) and Ekspozi (Exposure). They are naughty and bad chimi cause instead of helping Art2C fund her goals, they beg for free stuff, or at no cost for exposure, or discounts, which is a big no no.
After you got your immensely cute Chimi, you maybe want a variety of merchandise printed with your little one!
I have many suppliers, and also a ton of cool, niche, and fun products I can offer!
I have a special bond with my suppliers, the best deals and also know how to work with their software.
Do you want merchandise?
I plan on creating a separate shop where you can place an order for merchandise with your little Chimi.
What I see rarily, but something you might love, are GIFs, or moving images.
I can't animate, but I can and do plan on offering 2-4 screen GIFs or moving stickers.
I already asked the C-Trio to help me out and they gave me cute ideas for samples I can make.
Stay tuned until I can offer moving Chimi, along with their pricing.
Duotone, or an artwork in just 2 colors, is not something you see a lot. They're perfect for vector, stickers, logo's or linework.
I can also offer Chimi in duotone. I already have some samples (see Who are the C-Trio)
But I'll only offer it when there's enough interest for this coloring style, as it's a lot of work for something no one would want.